Dread Mob? Let's try it!

OK, I got seriously bored with the gunline.  It's worse than the old decurion.  But now that I have the 'naut at least built I can try fielding a more mechanized list. 

Going heavy support heavy means fewer command points, but we'll see how that goes. I tend to use them pretty quickly.

Spearhead Detachment
HQ: Big mek on bike, KFF
HQ: Big mek, KFF

Elites: 10 Kommandos, 2x burna, Nob w/BC
Elites: 10 Kommandos, 2x burna, Nob w/BC

Heavy: 4 Lobbas
Heavy: Gorkanaut
Heavy: 2 Dreads, 2x CCW, 2x skorcha
Heavy: 6 kans, 3x rokket, 3x grotzooka
Heavy: 3 kans, 3x big shoota

Super heavy aux detachment
Kill Tank, Bursta kannon, 2x extra twin BS

2000pts, 4 command points

That's every walker I own on the field.  I might try to get more in the future, we'll see.  So I have the lobbas for a bit of back field objective sitting and some more anti-infantry, plus the kommandos for disruption.  They probably won't be first turn though, using them 2nd turn as the walkers get closer sounds like a better plan.  And the Kill tank with it's own KFF mek for even more ranged punch.

Gun line part duex

After realizing the VSG was nerfed to uselessness, I needed a new list.

The basis would be the same - 10 artillery and 30 lootas - but this time with much more KFF action.  3, in fact, to make sure everything is covered. 

I also went to 2 units of 30 boys and Da Jump, along with 2 units of 9 kommandos.  Lots of backfield pressure.  I ended up with a few grots because I needed a 3rd Troops choice and for some bubble wrapping.

ya, kinda like this..

Here is the list:

Spearhead Detachment
HQ: Big Mek, KFF
HQ: Big Mek, KFF

Elite: 9x Kommando, 2x burna, Nob w/BC
Elite: 9x Kommando, 2x burna, Nob w/BC

Heavy: 10 Lootas
Heavy: 10 Lootas
Heavy: 10 Lootas 
Heavy: 5 Big Guns, Lobba
Heavy: 2 Big Guns, Kannon
Heavy: 3 Mek Guns, KMK

Betallion Detachment
HQ: Warboss, pk, squig
HQ: Wierdboy
HQ: Big Mek, KFF

Troop: 30 sluggas, nob w/pk
Troop: 30 shootas, 3x rokket, nob w/pk
Troop: 14 grots

Elite: Mad Doc

1999pts, 7 command points

I made some slight changes, going from Smasha guns to kannon.  I didn't have too much luck with the smashas, so trying these out instead.  Surprisingly, kannon are almost the same price.  Gives more flexibility too with the d6 shot option.

The biggest downside is 17 drops, which means I'll be fighting to go first. At least I play under ITC. I also doubt I'll be doing reserves first turn, instead using the army to soften up targets before jumping or bringing on the kommandos.

Anyway I'll be putting this list on the table tomorrow.  We'll see how it goes.

Oooops! Forget the Void Shield.

I didn't know the VSG got hit with a giant nerf bat in the faq.  It was reduced to a 6" bubble and a 5++. That basically renders it completely useless!  It might be ok for some armies, but not for Orks.


That means having to use KFF meks instead.  Which, in hindsight, is probably going to work out better because adding elite slots will need to add HQ slots as well.

The difference between a 5++ and 4++ is pretty significant, so I'm not sure how much it will really help though. 

You can take 2 KFF meks for the price of a VSG and have points left over, and probably end up with better coverage and more deployment options.  

Pew Pew

So I have to apologize to my opponents this weekend. Luckily it was a fun event and not a competitive tournament. 

But back to the gun line.  With the reduction of the invul save, it's going to be imperative to go first.  Not sure how I will accomplish this, so time to tweak the list. 

Ork gun line?

So I'm playing in a tournament this weekend, that was set up a long time ago as 7th.  However we have the option to play 8th - which all my games have been.

Anyway I wrote out a 7th edition list and then slightly modified it for 8th.  In 7th it was ok, but in 8th it's doing pretty well.  I'm sure that has a lot to do with 8th though.

Here's the list:

Spearhead Detachment
HQ: Warboss, PK, Squig

Troop: 30 Sluggas, Nob w/PK
Troop: 12 Sluggas, Nob w/BC
Troop: 12 Sluggas, Nob w/BC

Elite: Mad Doc
Elite: Waggh! Banna Nob

Fast: 2 Deffkoptas

Heavy: 10 Lootas
Heavy: 10 Lootas
Heavy: 10 Lootas
Heavy: 3 Mek Gunz, KMK
Heavy: 2 Mek Gunz, Smasha Guns
Heavy: 5 Big Gunz, Lobbas

Fortification Network detachment
Void Shield Generator

Again, this was built primarily from the 7th ed models I was bringing with me.  

However this list just has a BRUTAL amount of shooting.  Smasha guns are just fantastic at taking down any big model, KMKs can really pile on the damage and lootas handle just about everything else.  the key though, by far, is the VSG itself.  It provides a level of protection unlike anything else we can field.  Combined with the FNP from mad doc, the lootas stick around quite a while.

It took me a while to decide to NOT take Da Jump with this list. Pretty much jumping the unit of 30 boys would mean leaving the gunline completely unprotected.   The Waggh! banner nob though was totally worth it, helping every single game.

The trukks are not really working out though, they just are not as fast as they use to be and the 8th disembark means they are even slower.  I think the answer is to replace them both with Kommandos.  That gives me quite a bit more distraction than those trukks. It also means re-arranging the detachments so I can fit them in.  Dropping the koptas will also give me more kommandos.  Remember, free burnas!

Showcase: Big Choppa Nobz

Finished up the Big Choppa Nobz, one for each of my 6 units of boyz.

Not much else to say, pics!

New commentary soon!

40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Boyz vs bikes, a case study.

What happens when rules drastically changes how you field your models?  A great example is the new index and Boyz vs Warbikes.

 

Warbikes were, IMO, unequivocally the best unit in the 7th edition codex.  Especially when combined with Zhadsnark.

 

 

 

 

So what made the bikes so good?
-had slugga/choppa for 3 attacks each

-3 TL S5 shots per bike

-+1 to cover save when turbo-boosting.

-4+ armor save included
-Fast!  24" per turn move + more if Zhadsnark around.

-Just 18pts per model!
-the T and save made them far less susceptible to mob rule.

 

And where did boyz suffer in 8th?


-Slow

-Suffered greatly at the hands of mob rule

-not very resilient
-were not able to kill everything.

 

Then the index hit, turning the situation completely around. 
Bikes:
-increased 50% in points
-Lost a LOT of their speed, from 24" to 14+d6"
-No "exhaust cloud" at all, which has been a stable fluffy rule for decades!

Mainly, though, it was the dramatic increase in cost.  There wasn't even really anything in the edition change that made bikes so much worse..just the points increase.

What did boyz gain?
-Mob rule.  The best morale mitigation in the game outside of "fearless".  Who doesn't want a LD30 unit of models?
-Attack buffs, both number and to-hit.
-Being able to be jumped across the board.


What it comes down to is while the points didn't change for the boyz, the difference between the two became much greater.  Resulting in boyz just being a much more important staple than before.

Warhammer 40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Big Choppas vs Power Klaws (warning: Mathhammer!)

Time to consider big choppas. They have never been viable options, with just a slugga/choppa being statistically better.

So anyway, 8th edition has changed that. Both due to the weapon profile and the rules.

So viable, in fact, I went ahead and bought a box of nobs so I can make a big choppa nob for each of my 6 units of boys!

1 Goff, 2 Evil Sunz, 3 Blood Axe.

Let's examine the difference.

Big Choppa:  S+2 (so S7), AP-1, 2 damage    you'll notice this is essentially the same as a Deffgun
Power KLaw Sx2 (so S10), AP-3, D3 damage, -1 to hit.

Big Choppa is also 36% of the points.  If I take 3 units of boys, that's a savings of 48points! 

The 3 categories:

Strength:  When is S10 better than S7? Anything T5 or lower.  Then you're wounding on 2+  Also anything with T20 or higher - which does not exist.  But once you get to vehicles you're still at a 3+, and thus have no benefit over S7.

AP: -3 vs -1.  That means you have a much better chance of getting that damage through, but having any AP at all makes the Big Choppa usable. Taking a 3+ to a 4+ is pretty nice.

Damage: D3 vs 2.  Even if you do get the PK through, there is a 1/3 chance you'll only do 1 damage.

Let's do some mathhammer:

Vs a Space Marine (T4, 3+ save, 1W)
BC:  3A * (2/3 chance to hit) * (2/3 chance to wound) * (1/2 chance to not save) = .667 dead marine
Points/damage =13pts per dead marine

PK:  3A * (1/2 chance to hit) * (5/6 chance to wound) * (5/6 chance to not save) = 1.04 dead marine
Points/damage=24pts per dead marine

Vs an average vehicle (T7, 3+ save, multiple wounds)

BC:  3A * (2/3 chance to hit) * (1/2 chance to wound) * (1/2 chance to not save) * (2 damage) = 1 wound
Points/damage=9

PK:  3A * (1/2 chance to hit) * (2/3 chance to wound) * (5/6 chance to not save) * d3 wounds = 1.66 wounds
Points/damage=15

So as we can see here the big choppa is statistically more points efficient, and by that I mean you pay fewer points for equivalent damage.  That's not a bad deal at all.