40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Goodbye Loota-Wagon, we hardly knew ye...

Pretty much since the start of 8th I've been running lootas in a battlewagon (aka "loota-wagon) with the reading of the rules for the battlewagon that the passengers don't suffer the move and shoot penalty. I confirmed with Reece from Frontline gaming asking several times on Twitch.

However today the first 8th edition FAQ dropped and that does not work.  It's been "nerfed".  Yay!  Orks are VERY squishy and giving the lootas decent protection (since terrain is meaningless) really made a huge difference.  Repairing the wagon also helped with that.  It was very, very good.

So now the question is..what is the alternative? How can we keep the lootas alive to do their job?  Well really the only answer is a Void Shield Generator. Basically the same points as a battlewagon + deffrolla, it gives anything within 12" a 4++ from shots outside the 12".  This goes down as the building take damage though. The obvious difference is that it is static, and even moving by foot is a lot slower than in a battlewagon. 

Of course you can just keep the loota-wagon and if you have to move then just suck up the -1.  It wasn't an issue before with things like going to ground behind an aegis, so why is it a big deal now?  Because it was good, but not so good as to be OP. It gave Orks that long-range mobile firepower so many other armies take for granted.  It was new and different and effective.

Another alternative is to pump out more Kill Tanks.  It's actually fewer points than a battlewagon full of lootas. In fact I can almost take TWO for what I was paying for the loota-wagon!  And hell, you can still put lootas in them if you want lol! Did I forget to mention taking 3 gives you +3 command points?!?!



Anyway I think going forward the Kill Tank (and mabye the big trakk) will become the go-to tanks for the Ork player in competitive play.  It's just so darn cheap for what you get.

So that's where we are at. Less than a month into 8th and Orks have already been hit with the nerfbat.  Color me not surprised.

Battleshock comes to 40k 8th edition - and I'm not happy about it!

Today was the big morale teaser.  Not very big for most armies, but when it comes to Ork it's devastating. 

Basically it's exactly the same as battleshock in AoS - add d6 to the number of casualties and subtract your leadership.  Then remove the number of models from the unit equal to the difference.

I've played my Orcs in AoS and battleshock does as much damage as the opponent.  It's not uncommon to lose 5-10 models a turn from a large boyz unit.  In fact, we plan on it - that's the whole point of running units of 30.

However my experience in AoS is large units of fragile infantry is a recipe to throwing away a lot of points.  the roll is irrelevant if you've already lost more models then your LD value!

The only saving grace will be whatever they do with Mob Rule.   Making units larger then 10 immune to morale, or if it started with more than 10 on a 4+ the model does not run away, something..anything. Otherwise horde Orks is a non-starter from the get-go.

8th edition teasers keep coming, and for Orks I'm hopefully apprehensive..

Are Orks really back?

Probably not. 

While GW teased assault would be viable again, the teasers so far seems to make it otherwise.  From what we know so far, it does not look good.

-the movement stat. I’m sure while marines keep the 6”, Orks will not be so lucky. Resulting in a slower march across the field.

-Cover. Instead of a fixed save, cover provides a boost to your armor save.  With weapons removing that save with a modifier, models that depend on cover will suffer from mass fire with any AP.

-Fall back from assault.  Sure, the assaulting units strike first but there is no way to stay locked in combat.  Any unit can fall back out of combat, leaving the assaulting unit out in the open to be shot at. 

-Multiple overwatch.  Units are no longer limited to a single overwatch a turn.

-Assault vehicles. Vehicles will no longer limit assaults when disembarking.  So where does that leave Trukks and battlewagons?  Will the open-topped rule be a thing of the past? Will fire points even exist?

Of course, there is so much missing of the core rules, plus all the army-specific rules, that no one can say for sure.  It really comes down to how the army/codex is done more than the core rules themselves here.

But on the plus side:

-AP. Return of the old choppa rule?  YES PLEASE.  Give the choppas an AP of 1 or 2 (remember, this is 8^th nomenclature).  This combined with striking first means the lowly Ork boy will smash his way through just about any unit put in front of him…then get shot to pieces the next turn. As it should be.

-Trukks get better? ‘naughts playable?  No explosions?  The new stats on vehicles might just bode well.  Trukks with 4-6 wounds and the standard Ork save will have a much better chance of making it to combat.  With the transport capacity and new assault rules, means ‘naughts might be useable.  The lack of explosions would be a big help as well.

Again, I’m going to harp on how much the army rules will influence this.  Fixing all the mistakes of the 7^th ed codex (mob rule, I’m looking at you) is the biggest bump we can get.  Throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch? Yes, please.  However, I don’t see GW having the resources to completely re-work the entire line of armies all at once, despite the claim otherwise. Too many armies, units and options to balance… even with outside help.

That’s my rant for now.  I’m still very excited for 8^th, and can’t wait for it to get here.  I definitely expect it sooner than later, otherwise GW will suffer a huge Osborne effect.

Tau-riffic Tau-tober! - Final thoughts

As my kids gorge on candy and October draws to a close, the Tau codex hits shelves.

- The lack of a completely new codex is very disturbing.  Points needed adjustments almost everywhere, Broadsides needed to be S10 again and maybe some D-weapons for "balance".

- The new detachments and formations look pretty good, but like most some are way better then others.

- Seems like GW is up to the old tricks of limited rules. 

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tidewall-Counterstrike-Cadre

Now I don't mind having a whole playable dataslate in a box, but the rules need to be available separately..especially when you consider they are making only 200 copies of the rules..period.

It's really 30 firewarriors, 10 pathfinders and then the fortifications, which isn't much. But what kind of benefits it gives it what matters.   It may not be a Skyhammer Annihilation force, but it may be just as bad.

- Will Tau make it back into high-level tournament play?  Probably not. The one thing Tau does better then anyone is interceptor - which kills a lot of the high level lists (including the aforementioned Skyhammer Annihilation force) but skyfire gets super expensive very quick..especially trying to fight 5+ FMC's.

What's next? I'll probably be messing around with Tau for the next month.

With allies.  Sure, I can't do Orks (Zhadsnark backed up by broadsides? FUCK YA) in ITC rules but I can do...CHAOS!!!

7th edition psychic powers leaked...WIERDBOYS HO!!!

ORKS GET BOOK POWERS!!!!

Leaked pics here

I'm almost giddy over this. Orks have access to the 2 schools of Daemonolgy and Force power.

After going over the powers, the ones that stand out to me are:

1. Hammerhand. Whole unit gets +2 Str. ..the WHOLE unit..plus TWO strength..
2. Sanctuary.  Gain +1 invul save, which means gaining a 6+ if you have none. Great boost to cybork Nobs, and even a whole unit of boys with a 6+ is not shabby at all.

Also it seems double force org is out.  Which means I'm limited to 3 Wierdboys.

Of course, this is only for a few weeks before the new Codex hits.  We'll have to see what happens after that.

So the 7th edition Allies matrix has been spoiled..oh where art thou?

Oh man the impending Ork book better be good considering how much they get screwed in the allies matrix. And snap shots.

The only Allies of Convenience is Chaos Space Marines - which, honestly, I've wanted to build a detachment of them forever anyway.  Glad I didn't spend any real money on a Blood-Axe painted Tau detachment..well I actually have not spent any considering the 12 Firewarriors I do have i bummed off my cousin..

So the question will stick with me a while..do I build a "normal" CSM detachment or an "Orkified" CSM detachment..

The other thing that really hurts is the rumor that snapshots will be -2 BS.  Hopefully that does NOT mean Orks can no longer snapshot at all being BS0...

And lastly is maintaining Eldar and DE as battle brothers.  Seer Council is a LOT less scary without the Baron attached..

Anyway only a week an a half before 7th hits. I will of course sacrifice food for a week to buy the books and dive right in!

Codex supplements - Best thing ever, or blatant money grab?

So I recently posted a video of my review of the Farsight Enclaves supplement.  First comment, was from someone who usually I greatly respect but in this case I think he's way off.

 

"All of this should have just been in the main codex..  this is little more than blatant cash grabbing."

Ugh. no.  First, and most importantly..these supplements (especially the Black Legion one coming next month) have been one of the things people have been asking for, repeatedly, for a long time.

Basically GW does what it's customers ask for, yet still gets belittled for doing it? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

So the response to this was:

"it should have all been in the codex, especially when released THIS close to the initial dex's release.. they obviously had all of this in mind when releasing Codex Tau. If you feel that charging the same amount for an additional book containing roughly 3 pages of actual RULES which still requires the main codex to play is NOT gouging, then congrats on being exactly the type of customer GW feeds on and why everything they sell costs so god damn much."

Oh bugger.  Really? No, it should not have been in the codex. First, this supplement and the Iyanden supplement have both been, what 50% or more as big as the codex.  So including all of this in the main codex would make it much more expensive. For content only a fraction of the customers will ever use. He seems to think people only care about rules.

However, nothing could be further from the truth.  Most people love the armies they play not because they beat face at Adepticon, but because they love the background, look, play style or some other aspect which can be unique to one army or faction within an army.  My Orks, for example, are slowly moving towards Blood Axes.  Not only are Blood Axes a fairly rare look among Ork players, but the fluff fully matches my play style.  And camo is fun as fuck to paint.  If there were ever a Blood Axe supplement, you would be damn sure I'd eat ramen for a week to get it.

The other important point, is that supplements are OPTIONAL. Completely, totally optional. No one is required to buy one to play, unlike say..models.  If you don't like Farsight or Iyanden, and most people who play those armies don't, then don't buy the supplements.

A lot of Space Marine players hate Ultramarines.  So, having a Space Marine codex that isn't Ultramarine centric isn't a bad thing. Then those people that do like them, can buy the supplement to fully conform to the Codex Asartes.

My opinion stands. Codex supplements are not only something people WANT, but want them for their army.  They can't put 50 plus pages for each of 2-3 factions in the codex (say Beil-Tan and Saim-Hann for eldar) .  If they tried, then you suddenly have a 250 page codex. Then he would be complaining about the price of the codex!

All I have to say is, keep it up GW. Giving people what they ask for can never be bad, and fuck the nay-sayers.

P.S.  Blood Axes, please?

Games Workshop has changed, for the better, and we should all celebrate.

How much change has GW gone through in such a short time?  For someone who borders on a GW fanboy even I had to admit that last year at this time it didn't look good for GW in the long haul.

Codex creep GK was domination the tournament scene.  Finecast continued with quality issues with GW apparently indifferent to the consumer about it.  No support for events/tournaments.  It's like they were rolling along on past success with complete apathy. Units in books without models.  Oh, and the international sales embargo.

Oh what 12 months can bring.

What sparked this post? Today's announcement of a brand-new White Dwarf.  The final bad apple has been plucked and a whole new life has been brought to the Games Workshop hobby.

Check it out here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4200016

A whole new team. A whole new approach including featuring models painted by the community from email and Flickr. How cool is that?  Only time will tell if WD will return to past glory, but I'm hopeful.

So what else has happened to completely turn around my attitude towards GW?  A lot. Necrons brought non-power armor into the forefront of the competitive environment.  Timely and useful faq updates. More and more attendance by GW at events such as Adepticon and GenCon.

Then came 6th edition.  A whole new approach to 40k that to me is a wonderful game. With the latest round of faq and errata eliminating the deathstars and bringing the last little bit of balance to the game.  I always thought 5th edition was wonderful. It was, but 6th eclipses it by far.  Other then the challenge rules, I have no complaints about 6th. It is fast, fluid, cinematic and a whole lot of fun.  I think the challenge can be fixed really easy too, make it just like fantasy where unit champions can decline without penalty.

Still only rumors but the leaked release list includes some very interesting tidbits.  Mainly the idea that they will release small army lists in WD that can't play on their own but can be used as allies.  I consider that the ultimate win-win.  The company gets to sell more models, while the players and hobbyists get to try out new things, new models, new lists without the expense of a full sized army.  Specifically the older gamers with multiple armies that may not be buying as fast or as often as they once did, will be enticed into new purchases.  The final cherry on top is you'll never know for sure what you will come up against.   I honestly think 6th edition eliminates the "meta" entirely.

Oh ya, can't forget to mention the awesomeness that is Dark Vengeance.  For once, GW has put out a REAL starter set.  I've seen Macragge, Black Reach, Island of Blood, and none of them really qualified.  I looked through the book that came with Black Reach and I can't imagine a new player trying to figure out the game (basically it just had arrows pointing and referring to page numbers) and of course the fact that Island of Blood came with no stats at all..they had to release a pdf.

DV changed all that. There are missions that walk you through the rules adding more in each time. Heck there is even a *single player* scenario!!  Nicely made stat cards gives you all the information you need to get stared in 40k.  All this for the same price as Black Reach.  Don't forget the completely amazing models included in the set.  GW is still the king of models, especially plastics.

Did I mention every unit in the Necron codex has a model?  That is something new, and if the rumors hold then from now on every codex will have available every unit in it within a month or two. This may mean that some books are delayed, but that is a compromise I can live with.

There is no way to know what motivated this change.  Ultimately I have have to vote for the idea that sales were slumping, or at least flattening, and they realized the competition was coming on strong and they couldn't sit on their laurels any longer.  It really does come down to making money after all, and I will never berate them for that.

Edit: Totally forgot to mention the digital products!  If only they had them available for general computer use not just iSuck products.  maybe in time..

Not everything is perfect of course. The draconian clamp down on rumors.  Finecast still hasn't reached the quality it needs.  Price increases.   But overall I have to commend Games Workshop for the almost revolutionary way it has responded to complaints by it's customers and fixed a whole big chunk of it's issues, and in such a short amount of time.

I'm really looking forward to years of enjoyment with the current state of Warhammer 40k.  What's even better is the local people and community I play is huge, growing and simply amazing.  The Pacific Northwest is a huge gaming area.  There are about 12 active game stores around the Portland area alone, which means there has to be a lot of gamers out there spending money.

If you want to see what we do here, check out our club Ordo Fanaticus and it's forums.

Well that's enough for now.  I am still planning on hitting up the Bay Area Open next year, so subscribe to get updates on my plans for that over the next 6 months.

6th edition eve!

Tomorrow is the big day!  I have my book on pre-order hopefully I'll get my paycheck today so I can get it, otherwise I'll have to wait until Monday.

Summery of released information from an Ork perspective:

Furious charge is getting a serious nerf. first no initiative boost at all, and if you multi-assault then you don't gain any benefit from it period. So no more assaulting multiple rhinos or chimeras. might mean taking stikkbombz a good idea so you can get that S4 no matter what, depends on the grenade rules though.

The psychic power "terrify" removes fearless from a unit. Could be potentially bad.

Snapfire though is going to make lootas and shootas absolutely insane. No, worse then that. Really, really f*&^ing insane.

No more wound allocation takes nobs down a notch, but then makes paladins easier as well

Our vehicles won't gain or lose much at all. If anything they will be easier to destroy with the KFF dropping to 5+

Stormboyz might be worth trying out with their I10 "impact" hit and their max 30" assault range.

Wierdboys boost the psychic defense roll. So in 2k when you can take 2 force orgs getting one in a key unit might not be a bad idea.

Really sucks no access to new powers

Allies will be fun. I would love to add 3 broadsides to my 30 lootas.

Biggest change by far is the end of No Retreat! That alone makes up for any other shortcomings.

Power weapons = Ap3 = MEGANOBZ RULE! Come here, DCA

I think any form of Mechanized army will suffer from how much easier vehicles will be to wreck.

However foot horde shooty armies are going to get a good boost. Not like they really needed it.

Remaining questions:
How will Prophet of the Waaggh! interact with new fleet rule
Will Ambush! still be able to bring an IC along

More bad news.. Furious Charge hit with the nerfhammer!

Ugh more bad news for Orks.  Furious Charge is getting a serious, serious nerf. Just read for yourself:

So not only do we lose the initiative (ya getting pounded by guardsmen again) but if you make a multi-charge (that's what "disordered charge" means)  you don't even get the S boost.  That means if Orks multi-charge they can't hurt vehicles at all!  WTF GW really?

The more I see the more I think CC is getting seriously nerfed in general. Like shooting wasn't already dominant, I was hoping for the exact opposite..CC needs a boost not a nerf!

Well look at that..Orks get screwed..

Well time to deal with a double-reaming in 6th. First is the rule where wounds are allocated to closest models first (which means you run forward and never get any closer) and now the psychic table is leaked and Wierdboys get nothing.  GW really could have made them useful with a simple checkmark. But nope, they will continue to stay on the shelf at home.

Oh and cover is a 5+ instead of a 4+.  Great. Now my stuff dies even easier. 

There are some glints of hope though, like an HQ being able to be a scoring unit.  Ghazzy scoring? With Snikrot? Who wouldn't want that.

Plus overwatch. Shoota boys on overwatch? That's going to be really, really fun!  Lootas will still be the answer to flyers, if in fact you do need 6's to hit them.  But with the cover change they won't be around long enough to matter.

It's looking like Orks might take a hit in 6th, which is really sad.

4th Orks vs 3rd Orks?

After watching a recent BoLS batrep on the current vs last version of the Tyrannid codex, I thought it might be fun to try that with Orks. So I got out my 3rd edition codex.

Then I read it.

I don't think the previous edition codex would stand a chance against the current one.  There are somethings in there that might give the new dex a run, but overall everything is more expensive.  There are a few stand out points that I do miss, however.

-Tankbustas, burnas, lootas as troops
-The Trukk was actually cheaper ?!?!
-Warbikes were fearless (yes I've harped on this time and time again)
-Burnas available in multiple squads
-Old burnas  (2d6 armor pen)
-Skarboys!  Oh man do I miss skarboys!
-Iron Gobs/Big Horns.  Would love LD8/10 back.
-Wider range of HQ choices.
-Being able to loot actual imperial vehicles.
-Nazdreg! (BS4 4-shot plasma!)
-Auto hitting zzap guns.

And then of course, the bad things:
-Shootas are rapid fire
-Boys much more expensive
-Trukk boys separate entry and fast attack
-Stormboys more expensive
-Limited number of burnas in burna unit, limited rokkits in tankbustas
-Old burnas (not a power weapon)
-KFF effects models, not units.

The real difference though is what was added more then what was change.  The obvious thing is Lootas.  Lootas really make the dex so much better overall it isn't funny.  Having trukk boys as troops, the burna/tankbusta units so much better, etc. 

So if I find someone to play against I might still scrap together a list.

The new Ork fllyers are here..and they suck.

..and they are WAY overpriced!

Now that the rules for the new flyers are out in the wild, I've gone over all the details trying to gleam some gold nuggets from around the crap.  The bottom line is, I'm not impressed.  Sure it is a completely bad-ass model, and with 3 variants you're going to have a ton of cool bits left over, but as a unit in the game they aren't what I've been waiting fore.

To be sure, they may have been designed with 6th in mind, and there may be something in the new rules that make them more survivable.  Like generic versions of Ariel Assault and Supersonic replacing the codex rules in DE/Necrons. This will give these guys what they need without making the current line of fast skimmers unkillable (Such as Eldar grav-tanks and vendettas). 

The best part is they are all fast attack! Considering how much complete suck there is in the fast attack in the codex, it makes these seem almost playable.

Easily the coolest thing here though is the Waggh!Plane rule.  Giving vehicles a benefit of your Waggh! is a great idea I had not even thought of myself!

By far the best choice is the Dakkajet. At a 110pts (more then 3 rokkit buggies) you get 6 TL STR6 shots at 30"  It also benefits from +1 BS against certain targets. Upgrades include 3 more shots and making it BS3!  yes, being able to shoot 9 STR6 shots TL at BS4 against rhinos and chimeras?  That is some seriously impressive firepower, for sure.  Not to mention mowing down infantry and denying FNP against DE.  For 135pts completely kitted out it's a big investment but, again, taking up fast attack means they won't be competing with anything important.  It needs to be about 30pts cheaper in 5th edition.

I can see 1 or 2 of these complementing a mech ork list, say with 9 killa kans and a battlewagon or two.  This way there is much more pressing targets then the planes allowing them a turn or two of being able to shoot.

Will one make it into my dual-denial shooty list? Maybe.  I'm not sure what I would cut at 1750pts, but at 2k I might take one.  It would almost always start in reserve (except in Dawn of war) and hope it comes on at the same time as Ghazzy so I can "blow my wad" all at once..

The other two versions are more expensive and just..horrible!  The burna-bomber has a few shots that ignore cover..but they are all AP4...sigh..really?  With the bane of Orks being Purifiers they couldn't just give us some decent AP3?  Or any AP3 for that matter? I would EASILY sacrifice 150pts to wipe out a unit of purifiers with a large blast AP3 that ignores cover.

The blasta-bomber is worse. It has a chance to kamikaze itself for a S9 Ap2 hit on something. That scatters. whoopie!  They should have just gone ahead and made it a sacrifice. You come on, move 36", blow yourself up on a target point with a S9 AP2 large blast (twin-linked because it has a pilot) for 80pts and call it a day.


Reading between the lines.

What really intrigues me though is looking at the rules for these and trying to evaluate what might make the next Ork Codex.  The most glaring thing that stands out to me is the willingness to break the "BS2" Ork USR.   This gives me hope that units will get re-evaluated for higher BS in the future. Even though most people support moving Lootas to heavy support, I never have as Heavy are already a hotly-contested slots.  But say, if the moved to heavy AND were made BS3 then that makes for a much more interesting set of choices. 

I could even see them making shooty units WS3 BS3 (like shootaboys) while keeping combat units WS4 BS2.  Makes for more variety, and along with it hard choices.  Right now, shootas are a no-brainer over sluggas.  Something like this change would really heat up the debate between the two.

Next thing is the waagh!Plane rule which as I said, having waggh! effect vehicles is a great idea. I can see this being expanded to other vehicles in the next codex.  Something like during the waggh! all vehicles get an extra d6 movement for free but always count as moving through dangerous terrain.  or something else interesting and useful, yet orky.

The bottom line.

I'm really disappointed.  There are so many really cool things that they could have done. Like make one bomber version carry stormboys like in apoc.  Or, as said before, give us some AP3.  Will I buy one? heck ya!  Especially since I get 20% off at my FLGS, so it will only be $36.

STOP making such awesome models!  TAKE MY MONEY GW! 

Island of Blood reference

It looks like GW actually listened and put up a reference sheet for Island of Blood. I plan on playing a 2nd game asap now that I have it.

All I have to say is good job GW! Ya, it should have been in the box but it's out and I'm happy about it.

Keeping up on rules debates?

If anyone here listens to the 40k radio show live, a couple weeks ago I called in during the bar portion to discuss the Shield of Sanguinius psychic power and how it does not effect vehicles.

Well, that didn't go over very well. Apparently no one listening or hosting had ever come across this particular issue before. Personally, it's a debate I've been having for over a year relating to the KFF and kan squadrons.

I also asked a few people if they keep up on rules questions, debates and the arguments. They all said 'no'. I was almost stunned. I can't believe anyone plays this game, especially on a competitive level, and don't know, bother or care to look up rules issues especially when they apply to the army they play.

Any 40k-related forum has a rules section. I specifically mentioned dakkadakka and warseer. The response to that was "everyone who posts there are morons" and any argument made is simply dismissed out-of-hand.

Face the facts, GW does not write solid, clear rules. They frequently create more questions then they answer especially with a new codex release. It is a fault in the game system, and most people know this. I think it is up to everyone who plays to keep up on what the unclear areas are, what the arguments are for those and then house-rule among friends or gaming clubs the resolution of each one. Or use the INAT faq's which resolves most issues even if not the answer you like it is at least an impartial 3rd party.